WL Updates on '22-'23 reliability? Anyone having any of these issues?

[Sarge]

As those who have been around a bit know, I've had a horrible go with my '21 Overland L 4x4 V8 (totally loaded with all available options).

The buyback department agreed to buy it back without me asking for more than 'information' on how to proceed last winter, but I was also working with Executive Referral Manager (referred by the chief engineer of the WL platform who I had emailed re all the problems). The buyback was suspended their buyback offer (no deduction for mileage, compensation for PPF, etc) as they could not leave it 'open' in their system (I guess it would screw up their TPS reports). They offered to suspend it temporarily and reinstate it once the ERM could confirm coming availability of Midnight Sky and the eLSD, so I could keep driving it until the replacement arrived. The ERM's last email said he was 'looking into it and would advise' on June 17. I went to Africa for July (had told him I'd be largely unreachable, on safari), but I'd be fine waiting until I returned. I hadn't heard anything upon return, so I emailed and called him... no response. I was off grid for a couple more weeks at the end of August, and sent more emails and left voice mails. Still no reply to this day.

So, I've now notified the Buy Back Department person that I'm just DONE with this hot mess, and want to proceed with the buyback regardless. I'm waiting for a response now. My state lemon law (WY) only allows for direct buy-backs, no replacements, so the replacement side of the deal has to happen separately. Assuming the ERM who had promised to provide a new vehicle, plus an eLSD this time, for the same cost I paid for my '21 (MSRP) has decided to simply ghost me, I plan to make one more effort to contact someone at corporate for help with a replacement. If no one cares, our fifth Jeep will be our last.

It's bad enough to dump $80k into a new vehicle and get a total lemon (paid cash - including snow tires/wheels/racks/PPF/ext warranty/etc), but it's another realm entirely to have an executive refer you to their Executive Referral Manager, have that person tell you they have a 'magic wand' (his words) to take care of everything (immediate build/ship, etc), and and then just ghost the customer after they rely on your representations... I've never seen anything like this. I took a 3,000 mile round-trip adventure to buy this specific vehicle, the only one on a lot in the US at the time. It was the first new car my 11 y/o son had ever seen. The whole charade has turned into an infuriating cauldron of frustration and embarrassment - from 'hero dad, awesome car, to "I thought you were getting that replaced", to "no they're apparently just completely screwing us").

I have some very pointed plans if they do not in fact replace this as agreed, both legal and corporate/public facing (I shoot photo and video for a living, and have a lot of storyboard ideas, in addition to a 'supercut' of all the defects). This thing has been a source of infuriating frustration, both while driving it and dealing with Jeep. I don't know if I even want another one, despite it theoretically being an ideal car for us if it just worked ( My car basically lives the life advertised in their marketing campaigns, towing boats, campers, snowmobiles, other trailers off road, road trips, snowy weather, hauling my photo and video gear (my career), etc., and is also used in work photos and videos).

The only thing that gives me hope is that it seems like people taking delivery of '22 and '23 model years aren't having any problems. As a lifelong Jeep fan, I hope that's the case, and Jeep resolves this favorably, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. I had planned to trade the replacement for the new twin turbo motor when it is available, and buy the new Recon EV for my wife once it acquits itself...

So, I'm posting the attached issues I've had out of curiosity as to whether those of you with newer '22-'23 cars are having ANY of the attached issues (they exceed the character limit of this site). The current issues start on page 6 of 11 (?!?). One way or another, this one is going back, I'm just not sure whether I should shop elsewhere for something that doesn't quite tick all the same boxes, but is at least properly functional. I need the 'dream' to match the 'reality'. I want the benefit of my $80k "bargain".

Anyway, thanks for reading, and responding re whether you are still experiencing any of these sorts of things. It will help me decide if I should stay or go, regardless of what they may offer, and inform other would-be buyers as well.

 

[Rolyasmatt]

Oh boy.

Well, 22 Altitude L - 13k miles. Zero issues from ur list.

The higher trim levels seem to take a beating.

 

[Jake22]

ZERO issues to report
Paid employee price $54.7k CAD ~ $40k USD
Excellent value, flawless paint, quiet/comfortable ride, ideal size, stylish/capable/reliable SUV ~ JEEP nailed it!
3wks from order to west coast delivery ~ Kamloops, BC

 

[porknbeans]

View attachment 3687

As those who have been around a bit know, I've had a horrible go with my '21 Overland L 4x4 V8 (totally loaded with all available options).

The buyback department agreed to buy it back without me asking for more than 'information' on how to proceed last winter, but I was also working with Executive Referral Manager (referred by the chief engineer of the WL platform who I had emailed re all the problems). The buyback was suspended their buyback offer (no deduction for mileage, compensation for PPF, etc) as they could not leave it 'open' in their system (I guess it would screw up their TPS reports). They offered to suspend it temporarily and reinstate it once the ERM could confirm coming availability of Midnight Sky and the eLSD, so I could keep driving it until the replacement arrived. The ERM's last email said he was 'looking into it and would advise' on June 17. I went to Africa for July (had told him I'd be largely unreachable, on safari), but I'd be fine waiting until I returned. I hadn't heard anything upon return, so I emailed and called him... no response. I was off grid for a couple more weeks at the end of August, and sent more emails and left voice mails. Still no reply to this day.

So, I've now notified the Buy Back Department person that I'm just DONE with this hot mess, and want to proceed with the buyback regardless. I'm waiting for a response now. My state lemon law (WY) only allows for direct buy-backs, no replacements, so the replacement side of the deal has to happen separately. Assuming the ERM who had promised to provide a new vehicle, plus an eLSD this time, for the same cost I paid for my '21 (MSRP) has decided to simply ghost me, I plan to make one more effort to contact someone at corporate for help with a replacement. If no one cares, our fifth Jeep will be our last.

It's bad enough to dump $80k into a new vehicle and get a total lemon (paid cash - including snow tires/wheels/racks/PPF/ext warranty/etc), but it's another realm entirely to have an executive refer you to their Executive Referral Manager, have that person tell you they have a 'magic wand' (his words) to take care of everything (immediate build/ship, etc), and and then just ghost the customer after they rely on your representations... I've never seen anything like this. I took a 3,000 mile round-trip adventure to buy this specific vehicle, the only one on a lot in the US at the time. It was the first new car my 11 y/o son had ever seen. The whole charade has turned into an infuriating cauldron of frustration and embarrassment - from 'hero dad, awesome car, to "I thought you were getting that replaced", to "no they're apparently just completely screwing us").

I have some very pointed plans if they do not in fact replace this as agreed, both legal and corporate/public facing (I shoot photo and video for a living, and have a lot of storyboard ideas, in addition to a 'supercut' of all the defects). This thing has been a source of infuriating frustration, both while driving it and dealing with Jeep. I don't know if I even want another one, despite it theoretically being an ideal car for us if it just worked ( My car basically lives the life advertised in their marketing campaigns, towing boats, campers, snowmobiles, other trailers off road, road trips, snowy weather, hauling my photo and video gear (my career), etc., and is also used in work photos and videos).

The only thing that gives me hope is that it seems like people taking delivery of '22 and '23 model years aren't having any problems. As a lifelong Jeep fan, I hope that's the case, and Jeep resolves this favorably, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. I had planned to trade the replacement for the new twin turbo motor when it is available, and buy the new Recon EV for my wife once it acquits itself...

So, I'm posting the attached issues I've had out of curiosity as to whether those of you with newer '22-'23 cars are having ANY of the attached issues (they exceed the character limit of this site). The current issues start on page 6 of 11 (?!?). One way or another, this one is going back, I'm just not sure whether I should shop elsewhere for something that doesn't quite tick all the same boxes, but is at least properly functional. I need the 'dream' to match the 'reality'. I want the benefit of my $80k "bargain".

Anyway, thanks for reading, and responding re whether you are still experiencing any of these sorts of things. It will help me decide if I should stay or go, regardless of what they may offer, and inform other would-be buyers as well.

Sarge, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope you get resolution with Jeep corporate or otherwise.

 

[Jake22]

Sarge, I hope you get resolution.

Maybe @JeepCares will reach out

 

[RichSNJ]

Past:

3.3 - My wireless charger pad will work for about 20-30 mins and then it will blink red and my phone is "very warm". I suspect it's overheating. I haven't noticed the pad itself or the cupholders to be hot though. If I go ahead with my plan to cover the piano plastic with leather I'll look into putting a heatsink on the bottom of that pad...

4 - My foot control usually works, but sometimes either needs a couple of tries or it won't work at all, but honestly I rarely try it.

9 - My drivers assist generally works really well when it engages correctly, however it fails to engage correctly maybe 4 out of 10 times, and this includes after changing a lane when it was working ok prior. When I say it doesn't engage correctly, I mean that it will engage, but it won't react to one lane side or the other, in other words, if the road turns, it will slowly go out of the lane until the lane keeping system kicks in. If I hit cancel and set it will reengage and then it will work ok. I've never noticed it fail to keep me in the lane once it was correctly engaged.

12 - The auto wipers don't work nearly as good as my 2019 gc. If I wash my windows, it shouldn't take more than 4 wipes before its done, sometimes it will go 20 or more times. When it's raining, it will generally go way too fast as soon as it gets any sprinkles at all. If I turn them off and back on, it will "work" as expected for a bit and then go into full gangbusters. Sometimes I have to go into UC and turn off the auto wipers because it causes the window to streak when it goes too fast with not enough water.

18 - I think everybody has this to some extent, I was told by somebody, possibly on this forum, that the gas tank "humps" over an axle or something like that, and most of the fuel is above the hump. Stupid and I think they should take that into account, but whatever.

I haven't actually taken it in to the dealer for anything yet, but I have a list of things I'm going to talk to the dealer about when I do, in addition to the ones I've already listed that line up with yours, I also have the following:

1. Memory Seat - The drivers seat will recline back ever so slightly on it's own sometime between when I leave the car and get back in. This is random but frequent and it's cumulative. In other words, It might recline a small amount and I don't notice it, then the next day it reclines some more and I notice it. I know it cumulative because when I hit the 1 button to reset back to normal, I can tell how far off it is by how far it has to move back. I've got all the keyfob memory features disabled (But I've tried using them to solve the problem, no change), and of course the auto seat back to exit the car is disabled.

2. Screen Brightness at Dusk - While using automatic headlights the automatic dimming feature will not dim the internal screens in the car when the sun starts going down until it's very dark out. This is especially an issue when you have a navigation map with a white background on the screen, it's like having a flood light blinding your eyes. When this happens you have to turn the headlights to On in order for the dimming to work. Once it's very dark out then it will dim and you can put it back to Auto.

3. Off-Road 2 fails to engage due to Payload. I can find no documentation concerning any maximum payload values in order to engage Off-road 2, but I think it's ridiculous that there is any payload limit at all unless it's set to GVWR. Regardless, I have had this message pop up with nothing in the Jeep other then my wife and myself and maybe 50 pounds in the back. I have turned off the jeep and turned it back on, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

In order of caring, I would list my complaints in this order:
1. Driver Assist Engagement Issues
2. Screen Brightness
3. Auto Wipers
4. Off-Road 2 Payload
5. Memory Seat
6. Wireless Charger
7. Foot Control
8. Fuel Tank Level

I don't think the HVAC works as well as my 2019 did, but it does work.
I've never had any issues with the Uconnect and am very happy with it.

 

[FlyingAvocado]

The only thing that gives me hope is that it seems like people taking delivery of '22 and '23 model years aren't having any problems.

Sarge, don't get your hopes up too high. My GCL SR is `22 and it died after only 2000 miles.... it's still in the shop... and still not fixed. Today marks 142 days in the shop (that's not a typo). I had a some of the same issues you did, from vibrations in the door panels (playing the same songs you used to reproduce the issue), to random freezing and reboots of the infotainment system, and even the dash cluster locking up, and that was all within the first 2000 miles before the vehicle crapped out completely for no reason. I hope you get all this mess sorted out -- through all of this crap you've taken the high road, and deserve a lot better. Good luck to you man!

 

[Jake22]

'22 GCL SR died @2000 miles...in the shop for 142 days & counting!

21wks...wow!
@JeepCares

 

[Sarge]

Sarge, don't get your hopes up too high. My GCL SR is `22 and it died after only 2000 miles.... it's still in the shop... and still not fixed. Today marks 142 days in the shop (that's not a typo). I had a some of the same issues you did, from vibrations in the door panels (playing the same songs you used to reproduce the issue), to random freezing and reboots of the infotainment system, and even the dash cluster locking up, and that was all within the first 2000 miles before the vehicle crapped out completely for no reason. I hope you get all this mess sorted out -- through all of this crap you've taken the high road, and deserve a lot better. Good luck to you man!

Why... don't you have a buyback deal by now?!? 142 days is beyond the pale, and way beyond any lemon statute. Have you pursued it? Free lawyer, problem solved?

 

[Boggswade]

Why... don't you have a buyback deal by now?!? 142 days is beyond the pale, and way beyond any lemon statute. Have you pursued it? Free lawyer, problem solved?

Free lawyer?

 

[RichSNJ]

Sarge, don't get your hopes up too high. My GCL SR is `22 and it died after only 2000 miles.... it's still in the shop... and still not fixed. Today marks 142 days in the shop (that's not a typo). I had a some of the same issues you did, from vibrations in the door panels (playing the same songs you used to reproduce the issue), to random freezing and reboots of the infotainment system, and even the dash cluster locking up, and that was all within the first 2000 miles before the vehicle crapped out completely for no reason. I hope you get all this mess sorted out -- through all of this crap you've taken the high road, and deserve a lot better. Good luck to you man!

Did they give you any idea of what the issue is or how long it will take? LIke are they waiting for a particular part?

 

[Sarge]

Free lawyer?

Lemon laws, in every state I have ever heard of, stipulate that the manufacturer pays for the plaintiff's legal costs. The intent being to help put the little guy on even ground with the multibillion dollar manufacturer. Most lemon law lawyers, if they take your case, take the case on contingency and do not charge anything to you. They simply submit their bill to the manufacturer when the case is resolved, and if they fail to resolve it, they don't get paid.

In most cases, the manufacturer also knows whether they are going to win or lose (as does the plaintiff's lawyer), so most cases never see the inside of a court room. It's not a fast process (can take months), but hey: Free lawyer. Without one, you're likely to make mistakes, resulting in either the process dragging on far longer, or failing or giving up. When the manufacturer knows they're dealing with a knowledgable lawyer, they're more likely to capitulate sooner. I expect the Buy Back teams are directly instructed to handle things to that end. No lawyer? Drag it on if the case isn't perfect. Lawyer? Settle it as slowly as you legally can with consideration for accrued expenses for loan interest payments, etc. That's my conjecture, anyway. I've lemon lawed A Jeep and a GMC a couple decades ago in California, and the above is what my attorney indicated. I doubt it's changed.

 

[Jake22]

Free lawyer, problem solved.

Godspeed 😖

 

[Sarge]

Past:

3.3 - My wireless charger pad will work for about 20-30 mins and then it will blink red and my phone is "very warm". I suspect it's overheating. I haven't noticed the pad itself or the cupholders to be hot though. If I go ahead with my plan to cover the piano plastic with leather I'll look into putting a heatsink on the bottom of that pad...

I cannot even use my wireless charger in the winter because the heat from the tunnel cooks the phone and sends it into 'heat protection/shutdown' mode. In Wyoming. In January. When it's below zero outside.

4 - My foot control usually works, but sometimes either needs a couple of tries or it won't work at all, but honestly I rarely try it.

9 - My drivers assist generally works really well when it engages correctly, however it fails to engage correctly maybe 4 out of 10 times, and this includes after changing a lane when it was working ok prior. When I say it doesn't engage correctly, I mean that it will engage, but it won't react to one lane side or the other, in other words, if the road turns, it will slowly go out of the lane until the lane keeping system kicks in. If I hit cancel and set it will reengage and then it will work ok. I've never noticed it fail to keep me in the lane once it was correctly engaged.

Mine drove like a drunken toddler sometimes at first, but a software update improved it. Now it just likes to act like it's about to play chicken with oncoming traffic sometimes. Other times it will randomly just drive straight off the shoulder if there's even a moderate curve in the road, even on a sunny day on a clear road with very clear markings.

I didn't think I'd really like having 'self driving', as a wheel man, a car guy who loves the track, and so forth, but now I don't want another car without it. It's just a bummer this one can't be trusted at all. I liken it to asking a five year old to steer for you from the passenger seat. They can do a good job most of the time, but they might kill people at any moment, too.

12 - The auto wipers don't work nearly as good as my 2019 gc. If I wash my windows, it shouldn't take more than 4 wipes before its done, sometimes it will go 20 or more times. When it's raining, it will generally go way too fast as soon as it gets any sprinkles at all. If I turn them off and back on, it will "work" as expected for a bit and then go into full gangbusters. Sometimes I have to go into UC and turn off the auto wipers because it causes the window to streak when it goes too fast with not enough water.

Mine are so bad I mainly forget I have them, and every once in a while they'll turn on and the feeling is 'oh, I forgot they're supposed to to that'.

18 - I think everybody has this to some extent, I was told by somebody, possibly on this forum, that the gas tank "humps" over an axle or something like that, and most of the fuel is above the hump. Stupid and I think they should take that into account, but whatever.

We've only been putting gas gauges in cars for a hundred years or so... A simple pressure sensor should always provide an accurate read. It's 2022 for God's sake.

I haven't actually taken it in to the dealer for anything yet, but I have a list of things I'm going to talk to the dealer about when I do, in addition to the ones I've already listed that line up with yours, I also have the following:

1. Memory Seat - The drivers seat will recline back ever so slightly on it's own sometime between when I leave the car and get back in. This is random but frequent and it's cumulative. In other words, It might recline a small amount and I don't notice it, then the next day it reclines some more and I notice it. I know it cumulative because when I hit the 1 button to reset back to normal, I can tell how far off it is by how far it has to move back. I've got all the keyfob memory features disabled (But I've tried using them to solve the problem, no change), and of course the auto seat back to exit the car is disabled.

Maybe it's sentient, but just enough to be able to screw with you.

2. Screen Brightness at Dusk - While using automatic headlights the automatic dimming feature will not dim the internal screens in the car when the sun starts going down until it's very dark out. This is especially an issue when you have a navigation map with a white background on the screen, it's like having a flood light blinding your eyes. When this happens you have to turn the headlights to On in order for the dimming to work. Once it's very dark out then it will dim and you can put it back to Auto.

Sounds like a light sensor issue, or the module it interfaces with. It likely won't create any error codes b/c it thinks it's working fine, is my guess.

3. Off-Road 2 fails to engage due to Payload. I can find no documentation concerning any maximum payload values in order to engage Off-road 2, but I think it's ridiculous that there is any payload limit at all unless it's set to GVWR. Regardless, I have had this message pop up with nothing in the Jeep other then my wife and myself and maybe 50 pounds in the back. I have turned off the jeep and turned it back on, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I've seen that one before too. Again, for no legitimate reason.

In order of caring, I would list my complaints in this order:
1. Driver Assist Engagement Issues
2. Screen Brightness
3. Auto Wipers
4. Off-Road 2 Payload
5. Memory Seat
6. Wireless Charger
7. Foot Control
8. Fuel Tank Level

I don't think the HVAC works as well as my 2019 did, but it does work.
I've never had any issues with the Uconnect and am very happy with it.

Good luck. Make sure you document everything you can with video.

 

[Jake22]

Can't use my wireless charger in the winter because the heat from the tunnel cooks the phone.

Must be a fire hazard in summer? @JeepCares

 

[Boggswade]

Lemon laws, in every state I have ever heard of, stipulate that the manufacturer pays for the plaintiff's legal costs. The intent being to help put the little guy on even ground with the multibillion dollar manufacturer. Most lemon law lawyers, if they take your case, take the case on contingency and do not charge anything to you. They simply submit their bill to the manufacturer when the case is resolved, and if they fail to resolve it, they don't get paid.

In most cases, the manufacturer also knows whether they are going to win or lose (as does the plaintiff's lawyer), so most cases never see the inside of a court room. It's not a fast process (can take months), but hey: Free lawyer. Without one, you're likely to make mistakes, resulting in either the process dragging on far longer, or failing or giving up. When the manufacturer knows they're dealing with a knowledgable lawyer, they're more likely to capitulate sooner. I expect the Buy Back teams are directly instructed to handle things to that end. No lawyer? Drag it on if the case isn't perfect. Lawyer? Settle it as slowly as you legally can with consideration for accrued expenses for loan interest payments, etc. That's my conjecture, anyway. I've lemon lawed A Jeep and a GMC a couple decades ago in California, and the above is what my attorney indicated. I doubt it's changed.

Sounds good. I am in the middle of the process right now. I am waiting to see what the Jeep ERM does right now.

 

[Jake22]

Waiting to see what the Jeep ERM does.

Electronic Roll Mitigation?

 

[Boggswade]

Electronic Roll Mitigation?

Executive Referral Manager. He has taken an active roll in the Lemon process from the Buy Back team.

 

[Boggswade]

I had little success with Customer Cares on approving a Buy Back so I sent a certified letter to Jeffrey Kommor (VP US Sales). A month later I received a call from Steve Stander (ERM) who approved the Buy back.

 

[Sarge]

Must be a fire hazard in summer? @JeepCares

It's a bigger problem in the winter, when it's cold out and the shivering children in the rear try to get warm by cranking up the heat. It's got to be the HVAC system/ducting/blendmotor/etc causing the problem. The foot vents under the front seats weren't connected, the dealer found a duct to the center tunnel disconnected, and tore it all apart, but the extreme heat in the tunnel is still a problem nevertheless. It makes no sense, and no one knows why it's still like this.