Flat Towing Grand Cherokee L Summit / “Death Wobble”

[Deniskrill]

RV owners who have flat towed Grand Cherokee two-row models are well aware of the dreaded “Death Wobble” - a condition in which the flat towed (four wheels down) Grand Cherokee did not track properly with the motor home towing it, especially in turning situations. “Death wobble” results in violent shaking of the towed vehicle - and often the motor home as well. The only way to stop it is to bring the motor home to a complete stop, straighten and realign the motor home and towed vehicle in the same line of travel and start again. Failure to stop in time has resulted in significant damage to motor homes and, sometimes, destruction of the entire front end of the towed vehicle - to say nothing of the fright experienced by the folks in the motor home when it happens.

The “death wobble” problem started in Grand Cherokee models in 2016 when FCA changed the GC steering system from a hydraulic system to a more sophisticated electronic system. In the older hydraulic system, when the GC was connected to the motor home and the ignition was shut off for towing operation, the front wheels of the towed vehicle would track perfectly with the motor home in all driving situations. With the advent of the newer electronic system, when the car was connected to the motor home and shut off, the computer bus controlling the electronic steering was also shut down and the uncontrolled front wheels of the towed car did not always track properly with the motor home, especially in turning maneuvers. FCA and NTSB were both made aware of the death wobble situation by a number of RV owners who towed post-2015 model year Grand Cherokee products.

I owned a wonderful 2015 Grand Cherokee Summit and flat towed it for many miles behind my 2015 Newmar diesel pusher 44’ motor home. My Summit never gave me a hint of trouble. I traded it on a new 2018 Grand Cherokee Summit on the statement by the dealer that it would tow the exact same way as my 2015 Summit. Neither of us knew at the time of purchase about the post-2015 model year “death wobble” problem. After my ‘18 Summit experienced the ‘death wobble” (once was enough, believe me!), I had to sell the car at a substantial loss. Later, we’ll after I sold my Summit, FCA brought out a special wiring harness to add to 2016-present two-row Grand Cherokee products to “ease with flat towing” (as the post-2Owner’s Manual says). The harness is expensive, most dealers have never heard of it and have no experience installing it and many reports on the RV Forums reflect the general lack of satisfaction RV / Grand Cherokee owners have with the wiring harness as a means to solve the “death wobble” issue.

Fast forward to now. We have bought a new motor home and need to purchase a new vehicle to flat tow behind it. We drove the new Grand Cherokee L at a local dealer this past week - and, yes, WE LOVE IT! We’d VERY much like to buy the car we test drove - but, for obvious reasons, we live in great fear of the “death wobble”. Quite frankly, we don’t want to - and won’t - return to Death Wobble Country in any way, shape or form.

The dealer where we test drove the GC L contacted his Stellantis rep who advised that the new GC L has a completely new steering system v the two-row existing Grand Cherokee and that the new Grand Cherokee L “should be able” to be flat towed successfully as indicated in the GC L Owner’s Manual. Close, man, but no cigar! The real questions we need answered are (1) whether the GC L can be flat towed behind the motor home without the necessity of a separate wiring harness or other modification and (2) has Jeep ELIMINATED the risk of “death wobble” completely in the Grand Cherokee L Summit so that we won’t run into the same problem we did on our 2018 Summit?

We’d LOVE to buy the Grand Cherokee L Summit we drove but we don’t care to and won’t allow ourselves to get burned like we did last time around.

So, our query to this Forum is this: Can the new Grand Cherokee L Summit 4 x 4 with Quadra-Trac II be flat towed behind a motor home without needing to have a wiring harness or other modification in order to avoid the “death wobble”? Put another way: Did Stellantis design the new Grand Cherokee L Summit in a way that the risk of “death wobble “ has been ELIMINATED in flat towing behind motor home applications?

We’re ready to buy. Any definitive help anyone can GRATEFULLY appreciated.

Many thanks!

 

[voltdoc]

Well, I can't answer your question with any certainty right now, but I have an L Overland (Quadra-trac II) on order so come October when we (hopefully) hit the road, we will find out! We fulltime in a 2017 Entegra Aspire 44B.

My understanding for the newer GC is the death wobble was corrected (presumably in software) and a special harness is no longer required. This was posted in a thread somewhere on IRV2. Fulltimer friends who travel year round have a 2020 GC and have never had the wobble, no special harness, they also had a 2015 GC and never had the wobble. They did have it on a 2014 regular Cherokee. One would hope (pray) if the issue has been fixed in the current GC, the engineering will carry over to the GC-L.

My more immediate concern is getting a baseplate before mid October. I have contacted BlueOx, Demco, Roadmaster and Curt. BlueOx and Demco say they don't have an L yet to pattern, Curt hasn't responded, but Roadmaster supposedly had an Overland L in their shop in Vancouver just last week! They offer a free base plate for anyone willing to let their vehicle be a guinea pig. The patterning takes five days, then they told me several more weeks for engineering and production, so it will be close. I will be contacting the project manager there again tomorrow to find out how the patterning went, I will also ask if there is some way to get in touch with the Overland owner so we can get some first hand info on all these questions. If you want to pm me with your email (or however that works in this forum, I'm new here) I can keep you posted on what I find out.

The baseplate replaces the tow hooks and the Overland is the only trim that has them as stock. I assume the Summit can also take the baseplate, however cutting the grill will be required. The Overland has a nice opening for the hooks with a rubbery flange around it so I'm hoping there will be no trimming needed. Perhaps Summit owners who want to flat tow could buy the Overland grill parts, dunno yet. The Limited and below cannot be flat towed (Quadra-trac I).

My next concern is disassembly of that front fascia to install the base plate! We'll see what Roadmaster says about it. I'm also looking for access to a shop manual or I may just ask if my dealer is willing to do it.

 

[Deniskrill]

Many thanks, Voltdoc. We’re both newbies here, oldbies on iRV2!

Tickled to hear you say you think death wobble was eliminated in 16-21 GC with software change. Would love to think that’s true and will carry over to GC L. But definitely not my understanding. IRV2 Toad thread is replete with posts of folks still having death wobble problems with 16-21 GCs and the wiring harness FCA has presented a host of its own problems - installation issues, dealer issues, functionality issues. How I regret selling my 15 Summit! I will get you my email address for any updates you get. Really appreciate that.

incidentally, the first GC L we test drove was an Overland and it is lovely. As I said in my post, the car is just magnificent - Stellantis has this one truly dialed in. You and I are going to be very pleased if it can be towed without death wobble problems. I am ready to pull the trigger as soon as I hear something definitive on complete fix of death wobble in GC L.

Happy motoring! Keep all 12 wheels on the ground!

Denis

 

[flat_tire]

Could not flat tow ours, we had to get a traditional tow truck with dollies.

 

[voltdoc]

Could not flat tow ours, we had to get a traditional tow truck with dollies.

If it's a 4x4 with Quadra-Track II it can be flat towed following the proper procedure in the owners manual including putting the transfer case in neutral. But because you don't have a baseplate installed for which to attach a tow bar (they are not yet available for the L) the dolly tow was the only option. Generally only a motorhome owner is going to go to the trouble of installing a base plate. Even the tow hooks on the Overland are not suitable for flat towing, they need to be removed and replaced by a proper base plate and require a towbar with locking arms. In addition brake and turn lights and a supplemental brake system are required.

The bigger question is why you needed to be towed in the first place?

 

[Rauchy]

Jeep products, and specifically the Jeep Grand Cherokee have been embraced by the RV community as being the best "toads" which are vehicles that can be towed four wheels down behind an RV. The Grand Cherokee in particular has been a fantastic toad. However, since the introduction of the electronic power steering and the associated "death wobble", followed by the FCA extended finger to RV owners who need help resolving the issues it has fallen from further consideration in my opinion. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of posts on RV sites such as IRV2 that deal with the death wobble, trying to get the FCA "fix" (a kit) to work, questions about how to get the power steering to work after towing, and incomplete or incorrect information in the owner's manual and instructions associated with flat towing.

I regret buying my 2021 Overland GC and despite 2/3 of the vehicles I have towed the last 31 years being Jeep or Dodge products I will buy no more because dealer or FCA assistance is a joke.

There is no other brand that is as popular for RV towing and apparently FCA does not care if they lose that market.

 

[voltdoc]

Jeep products, and specifically the Jeep Grand Cherokee have been embraced by the RV community as being the best "toads" which are vehicles that can be towed four wheels down behind an RV. The Grand Cherokee in particular has been a fantastic toad. However, since the introduction of the electronic power steering and the associated "death wobble", followed by the FCA extended finger to RV owners who need help resolving the issues it has fallen from further consideration in my opinion. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of posts on RV sites such as IRV2 that deal with the death wobble, trying to get the FCA "fix" (a kit) to work, questions about how to get the power steering to work after towing, and incomplete or incorrect information in the owner's manual and instructions associated with flat towing.

I regret buying my 2021 Overland GC and despite 2/3 of the vehicles I have towed the last 31 years being Jeep or Dodge products I will buy no more because dealer or FCA assistance is a joke.

There is no other brand that is as popular for RV towing and apparently FCA does not care if they lose that market.

Thanks for your comments, did you have the wobble? Did you ever get the harness installed properly so the steering remains active while towing? Just curious exactly what issues you had.

 

[JeepOwner]

I totally understand that it sucks how Jeep went from best option to poor support with an issue. I'm wondering what SUV is better than a current jeep even with issues of poor support currently? Or is it just frustration that an issue now occurs and support is lacking but jeep is still the best performing option?

 

[Rauchy]

V and J..........At the age of my wife and I the last thing we want is to experience on the road "events". Those could include everything from flat tires to dead batteries to other mechanical issues. The 2021 owner's manual for a GC suggests a kit to be used when flat towing and since it is Jeep Chrysler suggesting it, and since a lot of RV sites have posts about folks who have experienced the "death wobble" when towing their GC I opted to have the kit installed. I would far rather spend the money to prevent a potential problem than wait until I have one, especially in severe cases if the RV cannot come to a complete stop quickly not only can the GC steering and suspension get damaged, it has been reported the RV towing it on some occasions has had damage to the hitch structure.

So I did everything the owner's manual and the kit operating instructions say in reference to setting it in the towing mode. The kit does not provide for or allow power steering inputs from the steering wheel, but does respond to inputs from the road, such as turns, crowns, etc. Jeep engineers are specific in saying they do not want the power steering active via the steering wheel while towing. This was told to me by the technician twice because he needed to fully understand the system himself. Today after towing a few weeks ago I visited the dealer with two requests. The first was to be shown how to do a pre-trip inspection that verifies the electronic power steering kit is functioning. Short answer is as of now there is no way to do that, and he had his computer/scanner connected and it did not even show it was active. The second request was for him to show me how to make the power steering active after unhitching and wanting to drive after the Jeep has been towed. As it is right now the power steering goes to sleep for about 20 minutes or more after the GC is restored to the driving position. The technician and I ruled out the EPS kit as being the cause because with the kit engaged or not engaged after restoring the Jeep to the driving status it had no power steering. In both instances he had to use the shop's computer/scanner to activate the power steering.

I really like the GC. But the failure of Jeep to include complete instructions relating to verifying the kit will protect us from the death wobble, combined with their attitude about my concerns regarding the lack of functioning power steering after restoring it to the driving status is a great concern. Customer service is less than a joke because they lack knowledge of flat towing, the kit which prevents an issue when flat towing, and worse, their attitude which is "read the owner's manual" is insulting when in fact I can almost recite it at this point.

There are about 30 plus vehicles acceptable for flat towing behind and RV. As an example all 4WD Ram pickups are towable. I have one, a 2500 currently set up to tow and it is a no-brainer. Put the transfer case in neutral, hitch up and go. Tahoes are good to tow. There are numerous vehicles acceptable but we opted for the GC because we have towed a GC as early as 1994 and it was a dream to tow. It is the right size where a Tahoe or a Ram pickup is heavier and larger. It is easier to get into for two old farts like my wife and I. My lousy attitude will change if someone will step up to the plate and provide complete, accurate information, but by treating me like a leper when I ask reasonable questions to insure a more trouble free RV towing experience is very troubling.

 

[MemeW]

RV owners who have flat towed Grand Cherokee two-row models are well aware of the dreaded “Death Wobble” - a condition in which the flat towed (four wheels down) Grand Cherokee did not track properly with the motor home towing it, especially in turning situations. “Death wobble” results in violent shaking of the towed vehicle - and often the motor home as well. The only way to stop it is to bring the motor home to a complete stop, straighten and realign the motor home and towed vehicle in the same line of travel and start again. Failure to stop in time has resulted in significant damage to motor homes and, sometimes, destruction of the entire front end of the towed vehicle - to say nothing of the fright experienced by the folks in the motor home when it happens.

The “death wobble” problem started in Grand Cherokee models in 2016 when FCA changed the GC steering system from a hydraulic system to a more sophisticated electronic system. In the older hydraulic system, when the GC was connected to the motor home and the ignition was shut off for towing operation, the front wheels of the towed vehicle would track perfectly with the motor home in all driving situations. With the advent of the newer electronic system, when the car was connected to the motor home and shut off, the computer bus controlling the electronic steering was also shut down and the uncontrolled front wheels of the towed car did not always track properly with the motor home, especially in turning maneuvers. FCA and NTSB were both made aware of the death wobble situation by a number of RV owners who towed post-2015 model year Grand Cherokee products.

I owned a wonderful 2015 Grand Cherokee Summit and flat towed it for many miles behind my 2015 Newmar diesel pusher 44’ motor home. My Summit never gave me a hint of trouble. I traded it on a new 2018 Grand Cherokee Summit on the statement by the dealer that it would tow the exact same way as my 2015 Summit. Neither of us knew at the time of purchase about the post-2015 model year “death wobble” problem. After my ‘18 Summit experienced the ‘death wobble” (once was enough, believe me!), I had to sell the car at a substantial loss. Later, we’ll after I sold my Summit, FCA brought out a special wiring harness to add to 2016-present two-row Grand Cherokee products to “ease with flat towing” (as the post-2Owner’s Manual says). The harness is expensive, most dealers have never heard of it and have no experience installing it and many reports on the RV Forums reflect the general lack of satisfaction RV / Grand Cherokee owners have with the wiring harness as a means to solve the “death wobble” issue.

Fast forward to now. We have bought a new motor home and need to purchase a new vehicle to flat tow behind it. We drove the new Grand Cherokee L at a local dealer this past week - and, yes, WE LOVE IT! We’d VERY much like to buy the car we test drove - but, for obvious reasons, we live in great fear of the “death wobble”. Quite frankly, we don’t want to - and won’t - return to Death Wobble Country in any way, shape or form.

The dealer where we test drove the GC L contacted his Stellantis rep who advised that the new GC L has a completely new steering system v the two-row existing Grand Cherokee and that the new Grand Cherokee L “should be able” to be flat towed successfully as indicated in the GC L Owner’s Manual. Close, man, but no cigar! The real questions we need answered are (1) whether the GC L can be flat towed behind the motor home without the necessity of a separate wiring harness or other modification and (2) has Jeep ELIMINATED the risk of “death wobble” completely in the Grand Cherokee L Summit so that we won’t run into the same problem we did on our 2018 Summit?

We’d LOVE to buy the Grand Cherokee L Summit we drove but we don’t care to and won’t allow ourselves to get burned like we did last time around.

So, our query to this Forum is this: Can the new Grand Cherokee L Summit 4 x 4 with Quadra-Trac II be flat towed behind a motor home without needing to have a wiring harness or other modification in order to avoid the “death wobble”? Put another way: Did Stellantis design the new Grand Cherokee L Summit in a way that the risk of “death wobble “ has been ELIMINATED in flat towing behind motor home applications?

We’re ready to buy. Any definitive help anyone can GRATEFULLY appreciated.

Many thanks!

I want to thank everyone for their posts on this forum concerning all the flat towing issues with the newer Jeeps. We wanted to order a 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Summit Reserve this week. I remembered seeing the posts on this forum concerning the power steering issues coming out of flat towing and the death wobble issues on the 2021s. Dealers could not answer questions about these problems definitively. One call to Jeep Customer Service 800-777-3600 said any info regarding those issues had to come from the dealerships. Finally got a number for the Jeep Hotline 800-992-1997. A very short conversation with the rep that answered the phone revealed that YES, Jeep knows these issues are out there and NO, they have done nothing to correct them on 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokees. And that yes is you try to flat tow one it will wobble. When I asked if there was a fix or wiring harness being designed the answer was a resounding NO. Rep said Jeep was not doing anything until it became a big enough problem from owner complaints for them to spend the money to do something about it. We've been owners of multiple Jeeps over the years and they just lost my business. We will hang on to our 2014 Summit EcoDiesel as long as it works or until we no longer have a motor home. Hubby is glad I research forums and saved us from spending $70K+ on a car that won't do what we need it to do. He was not happy when I was asking too may questions earlier this week at dealers but he's sure glad now that we didn't make a costly mistake. Thanks to everyone for sharing info like this. Let's keep it up. BTW if anyone does need a Blue Ox base plate for the 2022s I was told today that Blue Ox has verified the base plates for the 2021s will work for the 2022s.. Overland part # BX1147, Summit part # BX1146. Thanks again and safe travels everyone. MemeW

 

[Jbleyl]

It flat tows just fine. 21 GCL SR. Plenty of info over here: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/new-grand-cherokee-l-flat-tow-547326.html

 

[ButWhatDoIKnow]

If it's a 4x4 with Quadra-Track II it can be flat towed following the proper procedure in the owners manual including putting the transfer case in neutral. But because you don't have a baseplate installed for which to attach a tow bar (they are not yet available for the L) the dolly tow was the only option. Generally only a motorhome owner is going to go to the trouble of installing a base plate. Even the tow hooks on the Overland are not suitable for flat towing, they need to be removed and replaced by a proper base plate and require a towbar with locking arms. In addition brake and turn lights and a supplemental brake system are required.

The bigger question is why you needed to be towed in the first place?

Could not flat tow ours, we had to get a traditional tow truck with dollies.

My understanding is that if you tow via a dolly, you need a locking steering wheel. Make sure your's has a locking steering wheel.

 

[Sarge]

If you can wait, I would not buy a GC L or '22 two row right now. There are just FAR too many electrical and QC problems to make it a recommended purchase. They're rated second from worst brand/vehicle at the moment, below even Range Rover, and myself and many others are having dozens of problems with them. If you have an older WK2, I would keep it another year or until whenever they sort this car out. It's really, really bad.

Perhaps, while you wait, you'll hear from others trying to use it as a toad in the interim, and then also know if it works in that capacity.